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- Date: Thu, 26 May 94 01:39:54 PDT
- From: Info-Hams Mailing List and Newsgroup <info-hams@ucsd.edu>
- Errors-To: Info-Hams-Errors@UCSD.Edu
- Reply-To: Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu
- Precedence: Bulk
- Subject: Info-Hams Digest V94 #576
- To: Info-Hams
-
-
- Info-Hams Digest Thu, 26 May 94 Volume 94 : Issue 576
-
- Today's Topics:
- "for ID" and othet stuff
- 6146A vs 6146 (2 msgs)
- Amp-Hours for a Battery (2 msgs)
- Bizarre QST statement (4 msgs)
- Callsign Server EMAIL Address Wanted
- cycles, cycles/sec vs Hz
- IPS Daily Report - 25 May 94
- Kenwood TH-78A *OR* Yaesu FT-530
- Looking for best price on FT-530
- Newsline on Satellite...?
- Obstructing justice
- Six Meter Opening on Saturday
-
- Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Info-Hams@UCSD.Edu>
- Send subscription requests to: <Info-Hams-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu>
- Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.
-
- Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available
- (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams".
-
- We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
- herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
- policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Date: 25 May 1994 14:43:50 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!master.cs.rose-hulman.edu!news@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: "for ID" and othet stuff
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- > GR>you get home, say "I'm home now" and not "I'm at the home QTH." >
- > Good advice, but pray tell, what is the difference betwixt 73 and 73's.
- >
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
- I actually heard this a few years back,
-
- "I'm gonna get out of the mobile and go into the QTH."
-
- How about, "Are you at your QTH?"
-
- Hell, yes. One is ALWAYS at his QTH!
-
- 73 = Best Regards 73's = Best Regardses
-
- Ain't ham radio a gas?
-
- I often say that I' "destinated", but I always regret it.
-
- How about "machine" for repeater? Is a repeater a machine?
-
- A machine gun repeats, doesn't it?
- ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^
-
- 73 de Jack, K9CUN
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 25 May 1994 18:24:40 -0500
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: 6146A vs 6146
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- Greetings! I have two Heathkit HW-101s sitting on my desk at home.
- One, appears to have been bought and assembled when the rig was first
- released. It uses 6146s (or 6146as or 6146bs) for the finals. The
- other which was bought and built in '79 has a sticker on the back
- which states that only 6146As should be used. Can anyone enlighten
- me on the specifics of the 6146 family? I've put together quite a
- collection of spare 6146s and 6146bs and hate to think that it was
- all for naught.
-
- Also, what is the difference between the Ten Tec Paragon II and the
- Omni VI? I just noticed the ads in the latest QST and the only
- difference I saw was $200 in price (though the ads didn't give many
- real details about the rig)...just curious really...
-
- 73 de Dave, N9UXU
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 26 May 1994 02:54:19 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!wrfin@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: 6146A vs 6146
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- Hi, Dave, I looked this up in the handbook, the 6146A is shown with plate
- voltage of 750V, power out of 70W. The 6146 is shown as 500V, power out
- of 48W. The 6146B is shown as plate 750V, power out of 85W. This is due
- to the higher plate current, 160mA instead of 120-135 for the other two.
- I have an "old" HW101, with 6146's in it, and wads thinking of putting
- A's in it, and playing with the plate voltage, but, who's got time!
- Anyway, I think that's the significant differences, if there are any 6146
- experts out there, we will be sure to hear from them!.
-
- 73s...
-
- In a previous
- article, dave@flowserver.stem.com (David Adams) says:
-
- >Greetings! I have two Heathkit HW-101s sitting on my desk at home.
- >One, appears to have been bought and assembled when the rig was first
- >released. It uses 6146s (or 6146as or 6146bs) for the finals. The
- >other which was bought and built in '79 has a sticker on the back
- >which states that only 6146As should be used. Can anyone enlighten
- >me on the specifics of the 6146 family? I've put together quite a
- >collection of spare 6146s and 6146bs and hate to think that it was
- >all for naught.
- >
- >Also, what is the difference between the Ten Tec Paragon II and the
- >Omni VI? I just noticed the ads in the latest QST and the only
- >difference I saw was $200 in price (though the ads didn't give many
- >real details about the rig)...just curious really...
- >
- >73 de Dave, N9UXU
- >
-
- --
- Bill Finch ~ | ~
- KF9KI ~~ | ~~
- Champaign, Il ~ | ~
- wrfin@prairienet.org /|\
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 26 May 1994 02:01:08 GMT
- From: yale.edu!noc.near.net!news.delphi.com!domonkos@yale.arpa
- Subject: Amp-Hours for a Battery
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- >
- >How can I determine the 'Amp-Hour' of a battery?
- >
- >I got some neat 6v no-maintenance batteries at the local Hamfest.
- >They charge fine, and have the appropriate 6 volts. But If they
- >say NP10-6 (or is it 6-10) 10 Amp-hour, how can I test that?
- >
- >And how do you test for a charged battery? I set my Multimeter
- >to 10Amp, and touch the probes to the + and - of the battery. (I hope
- >I haven't been doing -The Wrong Thing-!)
- >
- The 10 amp/hr rating is over a 20 hour period (500 mA/hr). It won't give you
- 10 amps in 1 hour. It's a bit misleading but to design engineers long term
- discharge is more important.
-
- Andy
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 25 May 1994 14:35:21 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!master.cs.rose-hulman.edu!news@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Amp-Hours for a Battery
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- > And how do you test for a charged battery? I set my Multimeter
- > to 10Amp, and touch the probes to the + and - of the battery. (I hope
- > I haven't been doing -The Wrong Thing-!)
- >
- > Thanks,
- >
- > --Mark KB2els
-
- Fine idea, but...
-
- I'd be interested in knowing what you look for and what this test tells
- you about the level of the charge. I always thought that secondary a
- cell's condition was more evident in it's voltage and not its short
- circuit current.
-
- I need enlightening
-
- 73 de Jack. K9CUN
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 26 May 1994 00:31:27 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!yee@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Bizarre QST statement
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- >Just for the record, I'm pretty sure that the FT101 uses 6146s.
-
- With the exception of the 101ZD (which is really a low end 901), all
- the 101's use 6JS6C's. I know. I have a 101B.
-
-
- --
- Medical Image Processing Group | 73 de Conway Yee, N2JWQ
- 411 Blockley Hall | EMAIL : yee@mipg.upenn.edu
- 423 Guardian Drive | TELEPHONE : 1 (215) 662-6780
- Philadelphia, PA 19104-6021 (USA) | FAX : 1 (215) 898-9145
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 26 May 1994 00:17:28 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!ncd.com!newshost.ncd.com!sheridan.ncd.com!stevew@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Bizarre QST statement
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- In article <gregCqDF5I.J7y@netcom.com>, greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough) writes:
- |> In June QST, there is an article on buying your first HF rig.
- |>
- |> Hooray!
- |>
- |> However, the author makes a really bizarre statement:
- |>
- |> In talking about hybrid rigs, he instructs the neophyte to stay
- |> away from those which have sweep tubes in the final, and go only
- |> for those with 'real' transmitting tubes (6146, presumably).
- |>
- |> Pretty much narrows it down to 'Kenwood.'
- |>
- |> It lets out Drake 4-line, which he mentioned as an example, FT-101s,
- |> etc.
- |>
- |> One wonders how such a bizarre and subjective criteria got by the
- |> editorial staff. Would we really tell a Novice not to buy a good
- |> used TR4C or FT-101!?!
- |>
- |> Yeah, I like 6146s better, but sweep tubes are both effective and
- |> available.
- |>
- |> Greg
-
- Just for the record, I'm pretty sure that the FT101 uses 6146s.
-
- I am POSITIVE my FT901DM does use 6146s...I've replaced em at least
- once over the years.
-
- As a side comment, and past owner of a vernerable TR3 which uses
- 3 sweep tubes in parallel...they are an absolute headache to
- neutralize!
-
- Steve KA6S
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 01:10:20 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!att-in!gw1!nntpa!not-for-mail@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Bizarre QST statement
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 26 May 1994 04:09:04 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!chaos.dac.neu.edu!chaos.dac!wy1z@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Bizarre QST statement
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- In article <YEE.94May25203128@mipgsun.mipg.upenn.edu> yee@mipg.upenn.edu (Conway Yee) writes:
-
- Path: chaos.dac.neu.edu!noc.near.net!news2.near.net!yale!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!yee
- From: yee@mipg.upenn.edu (Conway Yee)
- Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
- Date: 26 May 1994 00:31:27 GMT
- Organization: Medical Image Processing Group, U of Penn
- Lines: 11
- Distribution: world
- References: <gregCqDF5I.J7y@netcom.com> <2s0pqo$dc2$1@rosebud.ncd.com>
- NNTP-Posting-Host: mipgsun.mipg.upenn.edu
-
- >Just for the record, I'm pretty sure that the FT101 uses 6146s.
-
- With the exception of the 101ZD (which is really a low end 901), all
- the 101's use 6JS6C's. I know. I have a 101B.
-
-
- --
- Medical Image Processing Group | 73 de Conway Yee, N2JWQ
- 411 Blockley Hall | EMAIL : yee@mipg.upenn.edu
- 423 Guardian Drive | TELEPHONE : 1 (215) 662-6780
- Philadelphia, PA 19104-6021 (USA) | FAX : 1 (215) 898-9145
-
-
-
- On a completely different note, but speaking of the 101ZD - the 101ZD was
- one of a few transceivers used in the movie Cliffhanger. I know the
- 'what transceivers have been in what movies' thread went wild a while
- back, but I just thought I'd mention it.
-
- I think the HTs they used were Kenwood TH-?8s.
-
- Scott
-
- --
- ===============================================================================
- | Scott Ehrlich Amateur Radio: wy1z AMPRnet: wy1z@wa1phy.ampr.org |
- | Internet: wy1z@neu.edu BITnet: wy1z@NUHUB AX.25: wy1z@wa1phy.ma.usa.na |
- |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
- | Maintainer of the Boston Amateur Radio Club hamradio FTP area on |
- | oak.oakland.edu - /pub/hamradio |
- ===============================================================================
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 25 May 1994 14:48:45 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!master.cs.rose-hulman.edu!news@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Callsign Server EMAIL Address Wanted
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- In article <duncanfj.769803440@eplrx7.es.dupont.com>
- duncanfj@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Jeff Duncan) writes:
- > If you can only E-mail for a Ham Call listing, try a message to
- > Callbook@sat.datapoint.com Ith
- > In the text start the first line with LOOKUP then calls separated by
- > spaces. I Haven't used it for a while but it used to work well. Jeff
- > 4
-
-
- This service was supposed to have been terminated recently, May 1 I think.
-
- That's the message I got the last time a accessed it.
-
- 73 de Jack, K9CUN
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 25 May 1994 17:56:09 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!master.cs.rose-hulman.edu!news@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: cycles, cycles/sec vs Hz
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- This was previously posted:
-
-
- >or the most cogent comment on the cycles/Hz contraversy (made by WA6NIL)
- >
- > "Nz to Hz"
- >
- ==========================================================
-
- Hz is fine wid me. Cycles isn't!
-
- Cycles per second is also fine, but takes longer to say/send.
-
- 10 Mc is not 10 megacycles, but it stands for 10 megacycles/sec.
-
- One is a count, the other is a rate.
-
- 73 de Jack, K9CUN
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 23:34:11 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!trane.uninett.no!nac.no!ifi.uio.no!wabbit.cc.uow.edu.au!metro!ipso!rwc@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: IPS Daily Report - 25 May 94
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- SUBJ: IPS DAILY SOLAR AND GEOPHYSICAL REPORT
- ISSUED AT 25/2330Z MAY 1994 BY IPS RADIO AND SPACE SERVICES
- FROM THE REGIONAL WARNING CENTRE (RWC), SYDNEY.
- SUMMARY FOR 25 MAY AND FORECAST UP TO 28 MAY
-
- IPS Warning 15 will be issued later today for interval 28 May
- to 7 June.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
-
- 1A. SOLAR SUMMARY
- Activity: very low
-
- Flares: none.
-
- Observed 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 074/011
-
- 1B. SOLAR FORECAST
- 26 May 27 May 28 May
- Activity Very low Very low Very low
- Fadeouts None expected None expected None expected
-
- Forecast 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 074/011
-
- 1C. SOLAR COMMENT
- None.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
-
- 2A. MAGNETIC SUMMARY
- Geomagnetic field at Learmonth: quiet to unsettled
-
- Estimated Indices : A K Observed A Index 24 May
- Learmonth 13 3333 2323
- Fredericksburg 20 25
- Planetary 20 19
-
- Observed Kp for 24 May: 3543 3333
-
-
- 2B. MAGNETIC FORECAST
- DATE Ap CONDITIONS
- 26 May 15 Quiet to unsettled.
- 27 May 10 Quiet to unsettled.
- 28 May 20 Quiet to unsettled initially, then increasing to
- active to minor storm levels.
-
- 2C. MAGNETIC COMMENT
- None.
-
- 3A. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION SUMMARY
- LATITUDE BAND
- DATE LOW MIDDLE HIGH
- 25 May normal normal fair
- PCA Event : None.
- 3B. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION FORECAST
- LATITUDE BAND
- DATE LOW MIDDLE HIGH
- 26 May normal normal fair
- 27 May normal normal fair
- 28 May normal normal normal
- 3C. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION COMMENT
- NONE.
-
- -----------------------------------------------------------
-
- 4A. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC SUMMARY
- MUFs at Sydney were near normal, apart from 15-20% enhanced
- during local night.
-
- Observed T index for 25 May: 49
-
- Predicted Monthly T Index for May is 30.
-
- 4B. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC FORECAST
- DATE T-index MUFs
- 26 May 35 Near predicted monthly values.
- 27 May 35 Near predicted monthly values.
- 28 May 30 Near predicted monthly values.
-
-
- 4C. AUSTRALIAN REGION COMMENT
- None.
-
-
-
- --
- IPS Regional Warning Centre, Sydney |IPS Radio and Space Services
- email: rwc@ips.oz.au fax: +61 2 4148331 |PO Box 5606
- RWC Duty Forecaster tel: +61 2 4148329 |West Chatswood NSW 2057
- Recorded Message tel: +61 2 4148330 |AUSTRALIA
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 26 May 1994 01:29:14 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!emory!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.columbia.edu!namaste.cc.columbia.edu!mrw13@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Kenwood TH-78A *OR* Yaesu FT-530
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- The mail order place I bought my TH-78A from (I think it was Austin Radio),
- let me order the radio with just the BT-8 battery case instead of the normal
- PB-13 battery. I then ordered two compatable batteries from a place called
- BatteryTech.
-
- -Marc Wollemborg
- <mrw13@columbia.edu>
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 25 May 1994 22:31:42 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!hartzman@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Looking for best price on FT-530
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- I'm waiting for my license to arrive after passing the No-Code Tech. I've
- been looking into HT's and from reading this group have decided on the 530.
-
- The price I just got from HRO was $434 WITH a coupon; the price went up $35.
- If anyone knows of a better price, I'd appreciate hearing about it.
-
- In the mean time, I'm back to studying code!
-
- TIA,
-
- Les
- --
- --
- -- Les Hartzman hartzman@kilroy.jpl.nasa.gov
- -- Jet Propulsion Laboratory M/S 238-528 (818) 354-5964
- -- 4800 Oak Grove Dr., Pasadena, CA. 91109
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 25 May 94 17:18:47 MDT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!rm174b.cpd.usu.edu!kevin@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Newsline on Satellite...?
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- Is Newsline available of the satellites. If so where and when
-
- thanks
-
-
- Kevin Reeve N7RXE
- Kevin@CPD2.USU.EDU
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 25 May 1994 14:46:20 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!master.cs.rose-hulman.edu!news@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Obstructing justice
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- >
- > Presumably the "truth" you cite is the "local parasites", eh?
- > Nothing libelous or slanderous there .... truth is truth ... I like it.
- >
- > Cheers de Sandy
- > WA6BXH slay@netcom.com
- =============================
- This reminds me of the small town newspaper which carried an editorial
- stating that "half the city council are crooks". The CC got a court order
- demanding a retraction.
-
- The following day an editorial; apprered saying. "Half the city council
- aren't crooks."
-
- 73 de Jack. K9CUN
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: 25 May 1994 14:37:09 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!master.cs.rose-hulman.edu!news@network.ucsd.edu
- Subject: Six Meter Opening on Saturday
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- > Jim Kurdzo (kurdzo@gdc.com) wrote:
- > : Bob Witte (bobw@col.hp.com) wrote:
- > : : I've usually spent my 6M time on SSB (50.125 and up) but last
- > : : weekend played around with FM on the band. It seems that (like 10
- FM),
- > : : everyone hangs out on the calling frequency (52.525). Are there
- > : : other preferred FM simplex frequencies commonly used?
-
-
- I may be wrong but I think there is a band plan for thesix-meter band.
-
- Jack, K9CUN
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: (null)
- From: (null)
- The FT-101 series used a pair of 6JS6Cs. Until the FT-101Z came out.
-
- I had a FT-101EX, which had a pair of 6JS6Cs running at 100+ watts
- output with no cooling fan. Ran like a champ for years. I understand
- that the IMD products weren't all that bad either. ARRL lab measured
- -34 dB. The Kenwood TS-530 with 6146Bs measured -28 dB.
-
- Apparently, if you use sweep tubes properly they aren't that bad.
-
- On the other hand, I once had a Hallicrafters SR-400 that had a pair
- of 6HF5s running at over 200 watts output. Had to replace the finals
- every 4-5 months. And I didn't even operate that often!
-
- Just one person's view of life.
-
- 73,
- Bob K2PH
-
- --
- ----------------------------------------------------
- Bob Schreibmaier K2PH | UUCP: ...!att!mtdcr!bob
- AT&T Bell Laboratories | Internet: bob@mtdcr.att.com
- Middletown, N.J. 07748 | ICBM: 40o21'N, 74o8'W
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 22:06:19 GMT
- From: ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ddsw1!indep1!clifto@network.ucsd.edu
- To: info-hams@ucsd.edu
-
- References <1994May18.061220.16459@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>, <2riq0c$k5l@hplvec.lvld.hp.com>, <1994May25.061857.16014@ke4zv.atl.ga.us>
- Subject : Re: Need Advice
-
- In article <1994May25.061857.16014@ke4zv.atl.ga.us> gary@ke4zv.atl.ga.us (Gary Coffman) writes:
- >I didn't exactly say that. Much of the operation on HF is like that,
- >but there are people willing to engage in conversation on HF as well.
-
- Waaaaay back when, I had been calling CQ on 20 for about 45 minutes
- and was about to pull the switch when someone with a foreign call came
- back to me. Well, I was mainly in it for DX, so I returned the call,
- then yelled into the kitchen, "Hey dad, where's Guadeloupe?" He said it
- was in the Caribbean, so I was kinda disappointed DX-wise, but decided
- I'd have a nice chat with the op there. We chatted for about a half-hour;
- I had him record a joke to play on a friend, we talked about our occupations,
- just conversation.
- The moment I signed off with the guy, 20 meters (the ENTIRE band!)
- became unusable as a result of the pileup. Then, and only then, did I
- realize that I had worked some _real_ DX; a rare country at the time.
-
- Most notable in today's ham world was the absence of interruptions.
- Not one single person made a peep between our transmissions; no "W9LID
- is standing by," no jamming to shut me up and get me off the frequency,
- not a single sound.
-
- --
- Optimists say, "The glass is half full."
- Cliff Sharp Pessimists say, "It's half empty."
- WA9PDM We realists say, "Before I decide,
- clifto@indep1.chi.il.us tell me what's in the glass."
-
- ------------------------------
-
- End of Info-Hams Digest V94 #576
- ******************************
-